Jamie Marshall said goodbye to some familiar faces and welcomed two new ones into his room during the off-season.
Montana State graduated three of its top four safeties from last year’s 8-5 FCS playoff squad. Rob Marshall was a two-year starter at Rover and Eryon Barnett started at one of the two safety spots whenever he was healthy, albeit sparingly. And Cody Cleveland, a walk-on turned full-ride player, was a key backup and kick team member.
Now Marshall, a ninth-year Montana State assistant who will enter his third year coaching the MSU safeties and his ninth year helping coordinate MSU’s defense, will see if he can increase the production of his unit with the help of some new players. MSU added UAB safety Desman Carter last winter. The Bobcats also signed Iowa Western safety Bryson McCabe, a one-time South Dakota State Jackrabbit. Both new players are on campus and participating in spring drills. MSU also gets heralded recruit DeMonte King off a redshirt. Khari Garica, a starter for parts of his redshirt freshman season in 2014, will miss spring drills after having off-season shoulder surgery.
Marshall spent the off-season studying various defenses and trying to find new ways his Bobcats can improve. Montana State has led the league in total defense and scoring defense three times each with Marshall as the coordinator. MSU has seen Jody Owens win Big Sky Defensive MVP and Caleb Schreibeis and Brad Daly claim the Buck Buchanan Award.
But the last season and a half, Montana State’s defense has slipped to pedestrian levels. A once-elite unit did not record a stop in a 54-29 loss at Eastern Washington in 2013, a defeat that spawned a three-game losing streak to end the season as the Bobcats didn’t win the Big Sky for the first time in the decade. Last season, MSU lit up scoreboards across the Big Sky, setting a school record for points in a season. But the MSU defense ranked at or near the bottom in the league in every major statistical category and the pass defense was among the worst in the FCS.
MSU head coach Rob Ash has shaken things up this off-season, signing nine transfers, including seven expected to compete for starting spots on defense. Secondary coach Brandon North left for a similar position at Houston Baptist, opening the door for Ash to promote Michael Rider to coach corners and work with the secondary alongside Marshall. Ash also hired Owens, a 2012 graduate, to assist longtime linebackers coach Kane Ioane. Ioane received the promotion he’s been waiting for as he is the co-defensive coordinator with Marshall and has done the lion’s share of calling and coordinating the defense the first two weeks of spring drills.
In an interview conducted on March 24, Marshall sat down with Bobcat Beat to talk about the evolution of defensive football, the additions to his safety room and the future of the Bobcats. For full audio, click here
BB: Since it’s the freshest thing on our minds, let’s start by talking about the new guys. I thought Bryson McCabe was one of the standouts of the first scrimmage. You’ve had a few days to watch it and evaluate it. How do you think he did?
Marshall: “I think he did well for his first time in a scrimmage situation. He’s getting better every day and he will definitely help us next year.
BB: A guy like him is obviously not scared to stick his nose in there. Does that come with a drawback? How does a new guy acclimate to a team when he isn’t afraid to go hit guys?
Marshall: “He acclimated to the team when he first got here, when school started. He’s got a great work ethic so he fit in right away. There was no, ‘Who’s the new guy?’ type attitude. He fit right in, jumped in. Some guys play with a physical presence and a big, heavy body and he’s one of those guys. When he hits you, it’s heavy.”
BB: He’s a bit undersized (5-11, 197) so do you lose anything from a pass coverage standpoint?
Marshall: “The thing is, he’s not undersized. He’s exactly the same height and weight as Rob Marshall.”
BB: He just looks undersized when he’s standing next to Des Carter.
Marshall: “Yes. Des is bigger. But Bryson McCabe is 5-foot-11 and a half, 197 pounds. If he wants to, he can eat his way to 200 just like that. Rob Marshall was exactly the same height and weight. That’s what, when Bryson is walking around, there’s times when he looks big and there’s times when he looks smaller. But he was height and weighted by Wilcox so he is not undersized.”
BB: That is an interesting point. He does look different from different angles. Are you going to be playing him at both spots or are you just going to play him at strong?
Marshall: “Right now, all the safeties are learning both spots just so we can build depth. We want to make sure that everybody knows all the positions so we can rotate and we can play the best guys come fall. But the thing is, we have to have depth and we are finding that we are going to have some depth in the safety room.”
BB: In the midst of a drive in a game, do the guys ever switch from strong to free, the spot they are playing when you playing an up-tempo offense that’s just coming at you no huddle?
Marshall: “We didn’t have the luxury last year to be able to do that. This year, there’s some potential. We did it Saturday because we only had three safeties. West Wilson flipped from one play to the other from the field safety to the Rover. They should be able to do it. Preferably, I’d like to have four or five guys instead of one guy knowing free safety and the other rover because you do get different actions coming out. Hopefully they can do it.”
BB: In the scheme you guys run, what is the perfect Rover in terms of skill set? What does that guy have to be able to do?
Marshall: “He needs to be…he is into the boundary so he is going to have more run fit responsibilities. He is going to be more in the run fit. He will cover tight ends more than the other guy. Rover is your bigger, more physical strong safety type guy.
“Now, he still does have to cover the receivers in situations. But he’s still going to be protected into the boundary. Bigger, more strong safety type of guy.
“Free safety is going to be more of your bigger corner because you are going to ask him to cover the slot with a lot of space so he needs to be more athletic. But you still gotta hit.”
BB: You’ve obviously studied him and watched his film and all that but how excited are you to watch Des hit?
Marshall: “Very excited. It’s similar to Bryson. I knew Bryson was going to be a hitter. Desman is going to be the same. I’m not worried about that part of it. I’ve just been trying to talk to those two in this room to understand the drill tempo because they are from different programs and at different programs, tempo is different. We’ve been just been trying to teach those guys this tempo so we don’t do something that we aren’t supposed to.”
BB: A guy who has started in the FBS doesn’t often fall to this level but you guys got him because of the UAB program going away. What is his skill set? How good can he be?
Marshall: “We will know more in three or four weeks but from what I’ve seen right now, he’s very football savvy. He understands football. He jumped in when we started from Day 1 as you would expect a veteran football player would be able to do. He’s great with technique already because he’s an older guy. He has been well-coached down at UAB. There are a lot of things that just carried over. He’s a very intelligent football player from what I’ve seen so far.”
BB: How much of a luxury…you are going to add a bunch of guys to the mix in the fall. Is it nice having your guys, the safeties here for this spring session?
Marshall: “It’s perfect because you have to know a little bit more. They need to understand the things we are doing. We can teach it on the fly in August but it’s a lot easier to be in the program, understand the calls going into summer and then in August, we should be jumping with two feet.”
BB: DeMonte King is another guy who stood out a little bit. He was a kid I was excited to watch. I loved his high school film. Where does he fit into the mix? What is he battling for this spring?
Marshall: “He should be right in the mix for a starting spot. He’s playing well right now. He brings a lot of the cover skills to the field for us. He should be…he is battling for a starting spot, period. And if he doesn’t win the starting spot, he should be rotating in. Frequently.
“Khari, he’s out in the spring. But we are going to have some awesome competition. And if things go like I want them to, we will have depth at safety.”
BB: Khari has great cover skills and speed. Any thought of maybe working him in more at the nickel like a year ago so you can get more of these guys on the field?
Marshall: “We’ve talked about the nickel spot. We are being patient with it. We are trying to get him comfortable at the safety spot right now. I assume we get more into that in maybe a week or two or even waiting until August. DeMonte might have the better skill set to play nickel and Khari might stay at the safety spot just from what I’ve seen so far out of DK.”
BB: Last year, Khari filled in for Eryon Barnett for a few games and he played a lot of nickel. What did you like out of him his first year?
Marshall: “I liked that he showed that he’s a very, very tough kid. He had post-season surgery. The doctors went in and there wasn’t a whole lot left of his shoulder and he played three or four games on it. He didn’t complain about it. That needed to be fixed. That’s first and foremost. After that and hearing what the doctors said. I will never challenge him as far as being soft. That ain’t the case.
“I thought he definitely got baptism by fire. He progressed. I thought he got better and better as the year went on. And I think the injuries still affected his play. I think his best days of playing are going to be coming up in August and September for sure.”
BB: With Khari out for the spring, is that an opportunity for West Wilson to position himself?
Marshall: “West has been coming along. He had probably the best off-season he’s had. He came in, he’s faster and he’s stronger than he’s been. He’s picking up the defense. He’ll have opportunities every day this spring. If Khari was here, he’d still have opportunities to get on here in spring. Everything is in his court.”
BB: You have your safety transfers on campus but the other spots, you are going to add five guys in the fall. From an evaluation standpoint, as the co-D-Coordinator, what are you looking at just out of the whole unit particularly when you will have some guys that will stir things up a little bit?
Marshall: “We evaluate. What particularly are we looking at? We are looking at each player and seeing if he can put himself in a position to challenge in August? Some guys are. Some guys are playing well the first three days. When more competition comes in, we are just going to add to the mix and makes us need to play them, that’s good for us because that means we have one more guy. You don’t want to look back but when you are limited by injuries as a little bit we were in the past, the more and more guys you can have on the two-deep, the better we will be.
“With tempo offenses, we cannot ride 11 guys through 11 regular-season games and everything else. It does not work. We have to find guys we can play.”
BB: On that note, how have you seen the defensive philosophy change with the evolution of offenses in this league?
Marshall: “What we are trying to do now is involve the safeties more as by being able to put their eyes on the quarterback at certain times. What happens is everyone is so focused on their key, something breaks and everyone is tired, nobody sees it and it’s a long score. That’s the way offenses have been evolving. But by doing a little of what we are trying here in the spring, I think it gives the safeties one, the ability to be a playmaker and two, have the ability to knock a play down if it does break.”
BB: I know one thing you and Rob and Kane mentioned was maybe simplifying things a little bit. Have you done that? How important is that when you are going against these break-neck offenses?
Marshall: “It’s not necessarily the offenses. It’s the players. You look at our returners coming back and the new guys we are adding and we have guys coming in in the summer as well to give all the new guys we are bringing in plus the guys who haven’t played, we are giving those guys an opportunity to try to simplify it.”
BB: Corners. You obviously lose a great one, a guy who played tons and tons of football for you guys in Deonte Flowers. How much pressure does that leave on Bryson and what does that mean for the other guys contending for a spot?
Marshall: “Bryson needs to step up. He had his ups and downs the previous year but I think he got a lot better as the year went on and kind of worked himself out of it. That was good to see. We definitely need leadership out of him.
“The other guys, the door is open. I still say we need to be able to rotate Bryson. Nobody can play 80 plays plus special teams for the entire deal. He needs to play well and if we can find guys we can rotate in, then if he’s playing 60 plays, he’s going to be much, much better.”
BB: Switching gears on you to talk about the guys who will be joining in the summer, first let’s talk about the three defensive lineman (Jessie Clark, Shiloh LaBoy and Joe Naotala) where do they fit into the mix, especially since you guys have a few back, particularly in the middle?
Marshall: “I think the d-lineman should add depth and more possibility of guys we can rotate through. We are not guaranteeing those guys starting. We are not guaranteeing those guys playing time. But it gives us somebody we can project in and say hey, you are going to go challenge for that spot. They bring depth and they should bring some size. Jessie Clark is a big dude. We will bring that, bring some length with those three.
“In the middle, we bring in (Marcus) Tappan into the mix. That brings a mature body that’s seen football before.”
BB: In the FBS especially, you see them playing eight, nine, 10 defensive linemen. That’s obviously not as realistic for you given scholarship limits. But with the high-paced offenses now, how much of a luxury is it to be able to play more guys up front?
Marshall: “It would be huge. I’ve studied offenses that are highly productive and one of them, they rotate five and three. Now they are at the FBS level but they have more scholarships but they are rotating their entire defense five and three because their offense is tempo and trying to reduce the plays because our guys are still expected to play special teams. That is what you need to be able to do to play well and play consistent. If we can find four d-ends, great. If we can find three that can play the two spots, that’s what we need to be able to have happen. From what I’ve seen so far, I think the guys are working hard and putting themselves in positions to allow us to do that.”
BB: And the linebackers, those guys, again, some unproven guys that were highly touted coming in here. First of all, Grant Collins, where do you think he is at in his learning curve, his progress? Is he on track with where you need him to be?
Marshall: “Yes, he’s on track. There’s no doubt about that. Coming along, still making some young guys mistakes but he’s making up for that through instincts and hustle and just being physical. He’s ahead of schedule from what I can see right now.”
BB: He just looks so good. He’s just so big and put together.
Marshall: “He’ll fill out a little bit. He’s where we want him right now. He’s on target.”
BB: Mac Bignell, has he surprised you guys as a staff with how much he has accelerated here?
Marshall: “He’s surprised us if we are talking about in terms of today and when he first came to us as a freshman. But what he showed last year in practice and a little bit during games, he’s not surprising me at all. I expected him to do well and he’s doing that right now. I’m very happy with what he’s accomplished so far.”
BB: What do you like in terms of the athleticism he brings to that Sam spot?
Marshall: “Well, he brings that athleticism but he also brings a tenacity and a never-quit, never-say-die attitude. You are not going to out-work him. So don’t try. That’s what he is bringing: consistency as far as coaching points and getting things corrected too.”
BB: Blake Braun, he’s a guy who will be affected the most by the transfers because it’s going to be Tappan trying at Mike and Will? What do you see from him switching him from Sam to Will and what’s his biggest point of emphasis this spring to get ahead?
Marshall: “I think he just needs to show that he’s picking up what we are teaching him. It’s a new spot, but that spot is going to suit him better than Sam. Him going inside, he just needs to progress. He needs reps. If he continues to work hard and study, he’s going to have five weeks more of reps than anybody else coming in and then he can apply that and that makes everything else that much easier come August.”
BB: Recruiting-wise, what was it like…I know you’ve spent the last few recruiting seasons in the offices evaluating film. What was it like being back out there?
Marshall: “It was good. I was Eastern Montana (laughs). What was it like? There was a lot of window time. I went out in January one day and I hit three schools in seven hours.”
BB: (Laughs) DaPrato told me he hit nine schools in one day down in Texas.
Marshall: “He hit em, hit em, hit em (Laughs). It was good. You get out there, wave the flag a little bit in Eastern Montana. And then I worked the phones with the safety transfers.”
BB: Establishing relationships in those small places….those schools are only going to have a guy once every decade if you’re lucky. How important is that just having them see you there just in case they do have a guy?
Marshall: “You just said it. It’s just relationships. Some of the small schools though, the coaches turnover is so high, so fast that it’s hard to keep track of every one. You have to keep plugging along ever year and you have to go see if they have anyone, if there’s any boosters in the area, say hello to them and keep going. Eventually it pays off even it it’s one kid four years down the road because they like us, that’s what we have to do.
“And you have to have four-wheel drive out there too (Laughs).”
BB: What was maybe the smallest town you went to?
Marshall: “Hmmm. Well, I went to Harlowtown, that was pretty quick. I went to Colstrip. I went to Hardin. Hardin has some size. I’ll tell you what, Forsyth, that’s a small place. We always go to Huntley Project of course. That’s a main stop. But then you get out in Sidney, Baker. Baker has nice stuff. Absoarkee? That’s small (laughs). But that’s an awesome drive. I’ll go to Columbus and there and down to Red Lodge and loop back up to Laurel.”
BB: Was there any challenges or anything strange with this class because you prioritized bringing in so many transfers?
Marshall: “I think the hardest thing was establishing relationships with the junior colleges on short notice. Typically, you want to recruit junior colleges like you do high schools if you are going to go that route so you’re always there, every year you stop by, every spring you’re there so you have a feel for it. You have a presence there every year. This was kind of a bombard it and see what we could find. There was some connections, some previous relationships we were able to build and help us bring in the guys we are bringing in.”
BB: Do you worry about brining in so many transfers could disrupt the team dynamics?
Marshall: “You would if they were bad kids. But we’ve done a bunch of good background checks on these guys and I think they should come in and fit right in just because of the relationships and things we’ve talked about and seen from them. We should be good. The two guys who are here now are fitting right in and some of these other guys should be able to do the same.”
BB: You guys have a pretty good dynamic as far as that goes. Your guys are pretty accepting. Bryson McCabe said he fit in right away when I talked to him last week. I haven’t gotten a chance to talk to Des but I’m going to talk to him one of these next two weekday practices.
Last thing for you. You lose so much on defense just in terms of experience. Given the status of the offense, how much you have back, is there a sense of urgency to get back to the level you guys were at here your first five or six years?
Marshall: “Yeah, we have to get better. There’s no ifs, ands or buts about it. Whatever we have to do, we have to do to get better. We are on that right track. But we need to keep in mind that we are young.
“And statistical football is getting thrown out the window based on what is happening. Now it’s just about can you make stops in the second half? Can you make third-down stops? Can you get takeaways? If you can do that, you are going to win a lot of football games.”
BB: Just following football, following stats, you have these baseline numbers in your head as to what constitutes success. Last year, eight teams averaged at least 409 yards per game in the Big Sky alone. You think about DeNarius McGhee’s freshman year in 2010 and how explosive you were and that offense wouldn’t have been in the top five in yardage last season.
Marshall: “It’s crazy how everything has changed. I’ve talked to several guys this off-season and they say yards per game doesn’t matter. Maybe you can look at yards per play but then what does that matter either? It comes down to can you get to third down and when you do, can you get off the field? Can you make them kick a field goal in the red-zone? Can you get the takeaway? That’s it.”
BB: Is it frustrating being a defensive guys and seeing this? It’s the trend but there’s also some rules implemented and some rules that were proposed but changed like the downfield blocking stuff. Even look at your offense. You guys are running the true triple option zone read pass option nearly every play. Is it frustrating that the defenses aren’t at any advantage any more?
Marshall: “I don’t think you can complain. If you know what it is, you can’t complain. You can be frustrated but you just have to figure out a way to slow those type of offenses down. Yet at the same point, there was a rule on the table, if they would call the rule the way it’s supposed to be right now, we wouldn’t have a big problem. But some offensive systems understand where the referees’ eyes are going to be so they manipulate the play so they can run a pass route on the left side and a block on the right side and the ref’s eyes are split and they don’t see it. That’s where some plays it doesn’t affect you but some plays, there are plays where a big play happens and I’m the safety and I’m seeing pass or one thing and it splits the defense because of what you’re saying.”
BB: It’s pretty darn hard to game plan against, I’m sure. Last question for you. What is the biggest thing that needs to improve or change this year? Is it execution? Is it attitude? What’s the number one key for you guys?
Marshall: “I don’t think you even look at last year. Because we are so young and so new, you look at everybody who is going to be playing and there’s very few guys who were a part of it. It’s a fresh start. It’s not what do we have to do from last year. It’s y’all haven’t played. At all. Let’s go out and see what happens. From that aspect, it can be refreshing.”
